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	Comments on: It Made Me Want to Drown Things &#8211; Thoughts on My Beloved Tomb Raider	</title>
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	<link>https://unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Uncouth Angel		</title>
		<link>https://unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/#comment-71240</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Uncouth Angel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2015 02:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-71240</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am a heterosexual male gamer, and I have played all of the Tomb Raider games, ever since I was a teenager. While I was a horny adolescent, I never fantasized much about Lara sexually, because I had too much respect for her character. Nor did I want to &quot;protect&quot; her, as she plainly didn&#039;t need to be rescued. I instead fantasized about BEING her. She&#039;s a great escapist character, probably one of the best ever conceived. 


When I played TR, I identified with Lara for the same reason I identified with any video game protagonist: because I was drawn into her adventure and her problems were mine. Sure, I occasionally killed her to &quot;test&quot; a dangerous area, or to re-watch a particularly amusing death scene, but this was for the same reason that I sometimes intentionally killed King Graham in King&#039;s Quest V.  


I honestly think you&#039;re reading too much into it to say that her various grunts and death sounds were sexual. Some people might just hear them that way since there weren&#039;t many female protagonists in video games back then. That connection never once crossed my mind at any point in the games, and I don&#039;t believe for a moment that the designers intended this to be the case. Likewise, this is also true for Lara&#039;s more gruesome and elaborate deaths. They are few and far between, and simply there to remind us that she&#039;s mortal. I honestly believe the game would have played the same way with a male protagonist back in 1996. 


I have been a member of the tombraiderforums.com community for about seven years now, and of this selection of the fanbase, I can confidently say that at least 50% of male Tomb Raider fans are gay. Like The Wizard of Oz, Tomb Raider has inexplicably attracted a large LGBT fanbase. And outside of the men, I would say that at least a quarter of the Tomb Raider fans on this board are female (with a normal distribution of sexual orientations), and many of them were likely attracted to this series because of its protagonist. In fact, I met my fiance here.


So no matter how much you try to politicize Tomb Raider and turn it into a story about a sexist game exacerbating the latent misogyny of its designers and fanbase, the fact remains that a significant portion of Lara&#039;s fans are clearly drawn to her for other reasons.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a heterosexual male gamer, and I have played all of the Tomb Raider games, ever since I was a teenager. While I was a horny adolescent, I never fantasized much about Lara sexually, because I had too much respect for her character. Nor did I want to &#8220;protect&#8221; her, as she plainly didn&#8217;t need to be rescued. I instead fantasized about BEING her. She&#8217;s a great escapist character, probably one of the best ever conceived. </p>
<p>When I played TR, I identified with Lara for the same reason I identified with any video game protagonist: because I was drawn into her adventure and her problems were mine. Sure, I occasionally killed her to &#8220;test&#8221; a dangerous area, or to re-watch a particularly amusing death scene, but this was for the same reason that I sometimes intentionally killed King Graham in King&#8217;s Quest V.  </p>
<p>I honestly think you&#8217;re reading too much into it to say that her various grunts and death sounds were sexual. Some people might just hear them that way since there weren&#8217;t many female protagonists in video games back then. That connection never once crossed my mind at any point in the games, and I don&#8217;t believe for a moment that the designers intended this to be the case. Likewise, this is also true for Lara&#8217;s more gruesome and elaborate deaths. They are few and far between, and simply there to remind us that she&#8217;s mortal. I honestly believe the game would have played the same way with a male protagonist back in 1996. </p>
<p>I have been a member of the tombraiderforums.com community for about seven years now, and of this selection of the fanbase, I can confidently say that at least 50% of male Tomb Raider fans are gay. Like The Wizard of Oz, Tomb Raider has inexplicably attracted a large LGBT fanbase. And outside of the men, I would say that at least a quarter of the Tomb Raider fans on this board are female (with a normal distribution of sexual orientations), and many of them were likely attracted to this series because of its protagonist. In fact, I met my fiance here.</p>
<p>So no matter how much you try to politicize Tomb Raider and turn it into a story about a sexist game exacerbating the latent misogyny of its designers and fanbase, the fact remains that a significant portion of Lara&#8217;s fans are clearly drawn to her for other reasons.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rhissanna		</title>
		<link>https://unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/#comment-68049</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rhissanna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2013 05:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-68049</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not so much about the sexualizing of woman as the wholesale, arrogant demonizing of men; the assumption that all men, your fathers, your lovers and your new-born sons,  are barely restrained rapists and abusers and murderers. It&#039;s divisive, it&#039;s neurotic and it&#039;s all over this article in an unapologetic way. Shame on you. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m not so much about the sexualizing of woman as the wholesale, arrogant demonizing of men; the assumption that all men, your fathers, your lovers and your new-born sons,  are barely restrained rapists and abusers and murderers. It&#039;s divisive, it&#039;s neurotic and it&#039;s all over this article in an unapologetic way. Shame on you. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Watcher		</title>
		<link>https://unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/#comment-55968</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Watcher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-55968</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The action is more gruesome and realistic. My partner has just started playing the new Lara and rather than enjoying seeing her die over and over. He is more compelled to get her through it. He has commented on the excessive violence as in feeling that it is over done. Initially I agreed with the viewpoint of yours and many others about how this was problematic, but after watching him play and his reactions to it. I kind of think it might be a wake up call to what real violence is. It is not glamorised like in mortal kombat as an aim of the game, you are actively trying to avoid getting hurt and blood splattering the camera. 
 
Particularly on the attempted rape scene I could tell that he was uncomfortable playing that section, from a nervous laugh (the kind you hear at funerals) and then commenting about how difficult to defeat the assailant was. To then trying to minimise what actually happened and what she(he) had to do to get out of the situation. I could tell from the look on his face, that in the back of his mind he was thinking is this what actually happens to women.  
 
Of course there will always be people who don&#039;t see this view, but I think it might be an eyeopener for many. 
 
Having said that the constant moans and cries and whimpers are completely unrealistic and do become quite irritating. The are like you say overly sexualised. As a martial artist I have observed little difference between men and women crying out in pain and both build up tolerances pretty quickly. In fact for me the more serious and painful something is the more likely my body is to shut down/delay my pain receptors. I really hope that Lara&#039;s moans start to decrease as the game progresses and she starts to get that numbness that goes with shock and trauma. They haven&#039;t once shown her properly angry yet either. They do show her empathy though and I think this is a great strength and the story is interesting. 
 
On a sidenote: He said there is a lot more fighting than puzzle solving in this version. Something we both prefer in our game playing. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The action is more gruesome and realistic. My partner has just started playing the new Lara and rather than enjoying seeing her die over and over. He is more compelled to get her through it. He has commented on the excessive violence as in feeling that it is over done. Initially I agreed with the viewpoint of yours and many others about how this was problematic, but after watching him play and his reactions to it. I kind of think it might be a wake up call to what real violence is. It is not glamorised like in mortal kombat as an aim of the game, you are actively trying to avoid getting hurt and blood splattering the camera. </p>
<p>Particularly on the attempted rape scene I could tell that he was uncomfortable playing that section, from a nervous laugh (the kind you hear at funerals) and then commenting about how difficult to defeat the assailant was. To then trying to minimise what actually happened and what she(he) had to do to get out of the situation. I could tell from the look on his face, that in the back of his mind he was thinking is this what actually happens to women.  </p>
<p>Of course there will always be people who don&#039;t see this view, but I think it might be an eyeopener for many. </p>
<p>Having said that the constant moans and cries and whimpers are completely unrealistic and do become quite irritating. The are like you say overly sexualised. As a martial artist I have observed little difference between men and women crying out in pain and both build up tolerances pretty quickly. In fact for me the more serious and painful something is the more likely my body is to shut down/delay my pain receptors. I really hope that Lara&#039;s moans start to decrease as the game progresses and she starts to get that numbness that goes with shock and trauma. They haven&#039;t once shown her properly angry yet either. They do show her empathy though and I think this is a great strength and the story is interesting. </p>
<p>On a sidenote: He said there is a lot more fighting than puzzle solving in this version. Something we both prefer in our game playing. </p>
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